tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102141287849407838.post6388692056525382039..comments2023-10-28T08:22:06.196+01:00Comments on Analytical Armadillo: Incubators out - how many babies have died unnecessarily?Analytical Armadillo IBCLChttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03829027807809292649noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102141287849407838.post-83601884508179291472012-12-28T13:43:36.555+00:002012-12-28T13:43:36.555+00:00Hiya Allison
Are parents discharged home without b...Hiya Allison<br />Are parents discharged home without baby? ie are they travelling in for cares/handles?<br />I really wouldn't have expected parents to be the big barrier, when I was in parents followed instructions from nurses to the letter (to the degree I used to say if the nurses told them to do a headstand for an hour in the corner as it would help their baby get better - they would do it!)<br />I think pumping with KMC might only be easily doable with older prems? For the reasons you mention.<br />My DS was 34 weeks and 4lb odd, so huge compared to those you care for - but KMC wasn't (and still isn't 6 yrs later) supported in our SCBU at all. Have supported prem mums inc triplets, but not in a KMC setting as there isn't one! xAnalytical Armadillo IBCLChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03829027807809292649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102141287849407838.post-11436333951783367482012-12-27T16:47:57.463+00:002012-12-27T16:47:57.463+00:00Hi Armadillo! I'm an NICU nurse in a level II...Hi Armadillo! I'm an NICU nurse in a level III (smallest and sickest). We believe in skin to skin contact as much as possible, unfortunately our barriers seem to actually be the parents themselves! We have strict handling times with the micro-prems (due to feeds, over handling, potential for skin breakdown, etc), and I often find that when I tell parents that baby's handles are at X, Y and Z, and that KMC needs to happen for a MINIMUM of one hour, they are either so late that I've had to do my handle (I wait up to 30 minutes, meaning baby's feed is delayed close to an hour, which is a lot when we're feeding small volumes every 2 hours), or they can't stay for much longer than an hour. <br /><br />Relentless teaching, providing all the research studies, etc, seems to improve this only marginally. We've worked to provide a more family friendly space with the very cramped, bright and loud nursery we do have (provided space and really nice equipment to do KMC, pump kits, a pump room or the ability to pump at the bedside, screens, etc). I've had countless parents end KMC early because they have to "go move the car" or whatever (makes me absolutely nuts)<br /><br /><br />Has anyone ever pumped while doing KMC? I've tried it out with moms a couple of times, but it's always been very anxiety provoking because mom is usually nervous about the baby falling over (most of our little little ones have a breathing tube), or she can't see properly. I've tried with baby tied to mom, but then the breasts are covered... any suggestions?<br /><br />And I'm so glad I found your blog, so many fantastic resources!! Have you had much experience in helping prems learn to breastfeed?Allisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17825887932194698905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102141287849407838.post-14903038685043558302010-10-04T19:09:39.075+01:002010-10-04T19:09:39.075+01:00Hi Donna
So sorry it's taken me so long to ans...Hi Donna<br />So sorry it's taken me so long to answer! Gosh your story sounds very traumatic, it's terrible isn't it! I will reply to your email now :)Analytical Armadillo IBCLChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03829027807809292649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102141287849407838.post-85957974027689166142010-10-01T05:23:58.694+01:002010-10-01T05:23:58.694+01:00Hi, Thanks for raising this issue! My 3rd child wa...Hi, Thanks for raising this issue! My 3rd child was born at 33weeks and I had a similar story of being hassled because I refused to leave my child. I did not know about KMC then, but I knew that if my daughter could have spoken she would have said "mummy please don't leave me" and so I didn't (aside from to get food or take a shower). I slept on a couch in the NICU for over 2 weeks, secretly. The staff threatened me with the psych team (other mothers don't cry) and thought my behaviour was unusual. I was traumatized by the separation from her in her first few days of life. I was unconscious when she was born and didn't get to see her for over 11 hours. I begged and begged the staff; and finally my friends came and bundled me into a wheelchair and took me to her. I was not allowed to hold her for 3 days, and finally a nurse said "have you had a cuddle?" and when I said no, she said "why not?" . I just looked at her with disbelief "because your colleagues wouldn't let me" I said. After my experience my friends and I formed a group in NZ called NUMB (Neonatal Unity for Mothers and Babies) and we have been trying to campaign to bring mothers and babies together. Parents of children in a paediatric ward would not be expected to leave their children and go home. We are still trying but attitudes are very hard to change and the incubator is seen as the basis for care. I love the work of Nils Bergman and Dr Adik levin.Donna Bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102141287849407838.post-52100622158776980382010-09-28T19:11:09.139+01:002010-09-28T19:11:09.139+01:00oOoOoOo I would love to see the book - but am gues...oOoOoOo I would love to see the book - but am guessing it's all in Sweedish? lol<br />I know what you mean about the difference in countries - I think culture plays a massive part too. Sweden had amazing bfing rates which means it's likely culturally they were at a very different place.<br /><br />I've received some really emotive emails on this subject - for as many that embrace new evidence based information (particularly if it means not separating mother and baby) others have a hostile knee jerk reaction - particularly from the parents of preemies who have used incubators.<br /><br />I was accused on one forum (in an extremely aggressive and rude fashion) of posting irresponsible information and how utterly ridiculous I was to suggest "a cuddle" could replace an incubator, and would I be happy if someone took their baby from an incubator and they died (as though I had devised the theory of KMC myself!!)<br /><br />What is it they say? First they ignore you, then they laugh at you? lolAnalytical Armadillo IBCLChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03829027807809292649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102141287849407838.post-56383254723865744072010-09-27T13:34:22.818+01:002010-09-27T13:34:22.818+01:00Sorry, should have said all prem babies born week ...Sorry, should have said all prem babies born week 28 and later......Maria Langstromnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102141287849407838.post-52221128527490454072010-09-27T13:32:04.238+01:002010-09-27T13:32:04.238+01:00I am swedish but have lived in the UK for 13 years...I am swedish but have lived in the UK for 13 years. My stepsister is a midwife in sweden and when I fell pregnant with my son (born 3/3/10) she sent over a lot of info about breastfeeding and amongst other things the breastfeeding guide for HCPs, last edited in 2008. In that book there is a chapter about kangaroo care and I am pretty chocked that it isn't implemented at all in this country. It also says that the WHO recommends kangaroo care for all prem babies born before week 28 and sick full term babies (that's where theres access to good medical care, ie developed countries). I am VERY confused how there can be such a difference between two european countries? <br />I want to thank you for a fantastic blog by the way! (I left the link on the bounty forum about the foremilk/hindmilk confusion) <br />I think my partner is getting a bit fed up though :-) as he always gets an earful when I've checked out the latest :-)Maria Langstromnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102141287849407838.post-73426154696948279642010-09-23T21:31:29.131+01:002010-09-23T21:31:29.131+01:00Ive applied for Uni starting sept 2011 as a childr...Ive applied for Uni starting sept 2011 as a childrens nurse and i hope from my experiences with my own children, a prem baby, and a cardiac baby. I can help and support new mums, and their babies. <br /><br />Isnt it the the survival and death rates in neonatal care have not changed in the 25yrs the unit have operated?> If this is the case I think this is terrible and that this is probably why they have not tried anything "new" maybe its about time more research was spent in this area.Donnanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102141287849407838.post-62445896297854732782010-09-21T21:22:04.909+01:002010-09-21T21:22:04.909+01:00I had my son at 33 weeks. After seeing him for may...I had my son at 33 weeks. After seeing him for maybe 2 minutes after delivery, they took him to the NICU. I didn't get to hold him again for almost 24 hours. When I asked about kangaroo care the nurses said absolutely not. And, I didn't get to breastfeed for 11 days it was the last night my baby was in the NICU that my husband and I roomed in. I had got all kinds of books on preemies and breastfeeding preemies. Everything I read was agreeing with my instict......and that was to hold him and let him nurse. I just don't understand why we as mothers are told to go against our motherly instict and listen to the doctor who, most of the time is a man and has NO idea what a mother's instict is all about. They were telling me to pump and then they would feed him through a bottle. He eventually became apnic while eating and a doctor suggested I try breastfeeding and guess what.........It worked! He took very well to breastfeeding and I am happy to say he still is at 10 months.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102141287849407838.post-85088758893010504882010-09-18T16:54:54.649+01:002010-09-18T16:54:54.649+01:00Hi Lisa
PM me best email addy to invite to a yahoo...Hi Lisa<br />PM me best email addy to invite to a yahoo group :)Analytical Armadillo IBCLChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03829027807809292649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102141287849407838.post-33535241650834988612010-09-18T16:51:31.721+01:002010-09-18T16:51:31.721+01:00Count me in. My son went to the SCBU when he was b...Count me in. My son went to the SCBU when he was born, it was a home birth but he didn't breathe properly (nothing to do with home births!) We went to hospital where they shone a bright light on him etc. and he ended up in an incubator on a glucose drip. All ended well luckily but it was a very cold and clinical start with no breastfeeding help at the very start - someone just suggested I tried - it was only the second time I had held him in 10 hours!Lisa Colehttp://www.lactivist.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102141287849407838.post-60041772822658147512010-09-17T10:55:40.708+01:002010-09-17T10:55:40.708+01:00I don't understand the above statement about s...I don't understand the above statement about sadness and Child Protection....can you explain this link for me? TaCarolinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18106115789044178226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102141287849407838.post-78471008975740940972010-09-16T11:08:45.060+01:002010-09-16T11:08:45.060+01:00Actually, the staff who hear Mothers express sadne...Actually, the staff who hear Mothers express sadness at separation pick you up as a possible Child Protection issue and at higher risk of PND. <br /><br />***ROLL EYES***<br /><br />It is perverse.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102141287849407838.post-54533228522194043922010-09-15T21:37:06.344+01:002010-09-15T21:37:06.344+01:00Hi Bethany
Or perhaps not even have had her stay t...Hi Bethany<br />Or perhaps not even have had her stay there at all - as KMC is shown to regulate blood glucose levels.<br />The language you use is typical, and highlights exactly what I mean by some of my comments:<br />""if I'd been allowed to""<br />I'm sure you meant if they had encouraged me to, because of course you are "allowed" - it's YOUR baby.<br />I'm really not having a go at you as it's the mindset of neonatal care Nationwide - including that of some HP's...Analytical Armadillo IBCLChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03829027807809292649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102141287849407838.post-26416294115678311132010-09-15T21:17:04.029+01:002010-09-15T21:17:04.029+01:00My daughter (now 6 years old) was born 4 weeks ear...My daughter (now 6 years old) was born 4 weeks early. She was tiny but healthy except for low blood sugar, requiring a relatively brief 5-day stay in the Level II nursery (babies needing more attention than "normal," but too few problems to require a stay in the NICU). I was encouraged to sit with her in the nursery as often as possible, to feed her, to hold her, to change her diapers. But she had to stay there because they were monitoring blood sugar, oxygen sat levels, etc. I wonder now if I could have shortened that stay by a couple of days if I'd been allowed to detach her from all the monitors and just spend some time skin-to-skin with her.bethany actuallyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02312893629556812242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102141287849407838.post-80725952925047682152010-09-15T20:33:58.147+01:002010-09-15T20:33:58.147+01:00Penny this also echoes my own experience totally -...Penny this also echoes my own experience totally - I was frequently told to "go home and relax" despite the fact I was feeding every couple of hours (making shooting home anything but relaxing and I did it twice per day anyway to sort my other child out!) get off the unit as it's not healthy to be here all the time etc. <br /><br />One SCBU nurse did come at the end to apologise for the way her colleagues had been - she said they are SO used to getting mothers who do as instructed, never question or offer a different opinion, they sometimes forget who the baby belongs to...I think there's a lot of truth in this...Analytical Armadillo IBCLChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03829027807809292649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102141287849407838.post-71650016936530150942010-09-15T20:25:40.247+01:002010-09-15T20:25:40.247+01:00Hi Donna - yes I think it's MASSIVELY traumati...Hi Donna - yes I think it's MASSIVELY traumatic to be separated from a newborn, and not something many staff understand. I can remember being desperate to go round to see mine and staff saying oooh go for a shower, have some tea and toast - I remember thinking how surreal it all seemed when my baby was 6 wards away!<br /><br />keljbj it's no shock at all about your friend - it's an impossible situation to establish breastfeeding in, I've spoken to the mums trying to deal with it and it's terrible. I'm a bit stubborn and although I was discharged after 24 hours, point blank refused to leave (bearing in mind it was my second and I was SSOOOOO much more informed than the first time around!) meaning they suddenly found me a room (and no doubt added to my popularity as the mad mum who had dared to argue with a registrar!) <br /><br />Temperature is one of the BIG SCBU daily battles - when I asked to do KMC to regulate, I was told what's the point of getting it regulated on you? we need it done in the cot! that's the level of understanding we are currently dealing with.Analytical Armadillo IBCLChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03829027807809292649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102141287849407838.post-56577413008111118412010-09-15T19:56:22.381+01:002010-09-15T19:56:22.381+01:00When my youngest was in the NICU for treatment of ...When my youngest was in the NICU for treatment of persistance of fetal circulation, I was one of the only mothers who was there day-in-day-out. One doctor even told me they usually tell first time moms to just enjoy their last baby-free days/weeks and wait for the hospital to give them their healthy baby. Thank goodness for the wiser doc who told me early on that my being present for my baby "was the best thing I could do for him." And due to the use of a HFOV, I could not hold him for several days, but I spent many hours stroking his head and letting him hold my finger, singing to him. We *both* needed it.Pennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15501498904596062821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102141287849407838.post-16764110452559143302010-09-15T19:20:35.719+01:002010-09-15T19:20:35.719+01:00I cried when i originally saw that news story, won...I cried when i originally saw that news story, wondering exactly the same, "How many babies have died because they werent given the opportunity for skin to skin?"<br /><br />My best friend's baby was 6 weeks premature. She was breathing unaided right away, but was still whisked off to an incubator. My friend struggled to establish breastfeeding, her already-high blood pressure shot through the roof with the stress of trying to recover from a c/s, get breastfeeding started, express the feeds she couldnt give in person and cope with being seperated from her baby, her firstborn. She was discharged after a week, and had to rely on lifts from family and friends in order to make the 10 mile trip to the hospital to tend to her baby, due to the section. It is no wonder that, at 3 weeks, as her little girl was discharged from the SCBU, she gave in and switched her to formula. KMC would have saved them both all this heartache, as i am sure the temperature problem that kept the baby in SCBU would have been sorted alot quicker had skin to skin been encouraged. Indeed, when my (full term) baby had trouble maintaining her temperature after out wonderful hb, i refused hospital care and spent two days cuddled up with her skin to skin, and her temp regulated itself.Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02856613502707764858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102141287849407838.post-58957974825198649542010-09-15T18:48:33.795+01:002010-09-15T18:48:33.795+01:00I feel like crying reading this. how many babies ...I feel like crying reading this. how many babies were not dead when the doctors said they were?? Everything these days is so clinical, even your supermarket!<br /><br />My 1st baby was born 10wks early and i didnt even see her at all for about 5hours was brought a polaroid photo almost straight away. But that was it, everything else felt traumatic!Donnanoreply@blogger.com